Friday, June 29, 2007

Topic: Somali Christian a Fact or a Fiction?

A Debate From www.Somalionline.com

enzyme4u
I happened to stumble a cross a christian-somali web blog which surprised me. Im looking for a honest opinion about the issue and realy want to know what other nomads think about it.

ThePoint
It's a fact - they exist although few in numbers - and generally closeted about it

Hodman
FACT and increasing as word has it.

illegal some-alien
does it matter? its their loss.

Honesita

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does it matter? its their loss.

Salaamu Aleeykum(allow me to disagree) Yes, I think it does matter. Muhammad Alayhi Salaam is the example that we follow in Islam. There is a hadeeth that i heard before but i cant find it or its authenticity where the Prophet alayhi salaam says that our example is the example of a man who builds a huge fire and he wants to throw himself in it and the Prophet is holding him by the waiste so that he does not fall in it. It's a beautiful hadeeth masha Allah. Basically the message of Islam is True Salvation. My point is, "We are not doing our job in learning and teaching Islam, Dawah starts at home, those leaving Islam to Christianity seem to be the most ignorant about religion, it's purpose and mainly about Islam, and the fact that they are no longer worshipping Allah the proper way should be a wake up call to us, insha Allah."My two cents...Wallahu Ta'ala A'lam.Fii Amaani'Laah

codeTalker
"Somali Christian" - an oxymoron.At the end of the day, as the saying goes: "Nin walbow Naftaa, Nabiyow Ummadaa..."

Animal Farm
there are Christian Somalis, I met two of them, one from the Maryano Family and another from Djbouti - they are somalis with the same cultural attributes, but different beliefs. i wanted to do a story on that subject long ago, but i figure Somalis would get angry about the fact.

Complex

SalaamIt's not a new thing...it's been going on for quite some time now. Recently I had a trip to Sudan and found out there's a huge Somali community there. I also got to know of a few Somali Catholics and an Orthodox. One of them was even the head priest at one of Khartoum's biggest churches.I asked those that knew them prior to their conversion about what made them change religions and they told me that due to Khartoum being a transit stop for Somali qaxootis looking for a way to Europe through Libya...they look for any means to provide for themselves. The church saw these men striving to make ends meet and offered them loads of $$$ if they would change religions and they accepted. One of them was even given a whole church to lead. They're never seen and have security 24/7...

Castro
That sounds like a nice (Khartoum) urban legend.

Socod_badne

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those leaving Islam to Christianity seem to be the most ignorant about religion, it's purpose and mainly about Islam,


Bull! Maybe they didn't find Islam to their personal taste. I'd argue former muslims are more erudite about Islam. Your bogus litmus test -- ignorance equals more proneness to leave Islam -- doesn't hold up. Most ubiquitous excuse used to explain away the unislamic behaviour of many devout muslims is ignorance about deen. What gives then huh?

Nur
Socod BadneYou argue: I'd argue former muslims are more erudite about Islam Your claim that Apostates are more learned in Islam than Muslims needs some qualification. Could you support your statment with reliable examples?Honesita implies, when it comes to religious convertion, that Christian converts to Islam know more about Christianity than Muslims converting to Christianity know about Islam. Christian converts are driven by an avid search of spiritual fulfilment while many apostates are driven by a material fulfilment as you have eloquently described as ( not fitting their Personal Taste )We Muslims fail to see Faith as a fashionable fad, as in the case of latter day Christendom, that is why Islam and Quraan endured centuries without a change compared to Christianity.Christian Converts include former priests, and nuns, scientists, diplomats, high profile personalities, in contrast, Christianity failed to evengelize Somalis for over a century of Catholic missionary work except for few individuals seeking a worldly gain.In Somalia, two segments were converted, at the earliest, students of the Mennonite Mission at Jawher and Mahaddai, who were promised scholarships to the USA and a better style life, and members of the farming communities in the Jubba valley.Socod Badne, as a Jew ( by Birth), not faith, you can relate to your brothers who converted to Islam, they were highly learned people unlike poor people from Somalia who are being targeted by the resourceful aid agencies to convert them to Christianity, read the link:
....

Socod_badne
Of course I can [that Apostates are more learned in Islam than Muslims], I'm SB. Man of stats and facts. Ibn Waraq (spelling!). Regardless of your view of him, agree with him or not, you gotta admit the man knows his stuff.


I don't know but from my vantage point she seemed to imply ignorance with apostasy. Turning on the TV, one can easily discredit this assertion. How often do you watch news clips of benighted, dirt poor muslim protesters lacking most rudimentary knowledge of Islam professing zealous affection and commitment to Islam? Ignorance being cause for leaving Islam is tenious claim at best, spurious if we're frank.

Qoute
Christian converts are driven by an avid search of spiritual fulfilment while many apostates are driven by a material fulfilment as you have eloquently described as ( not fitting their Personal Taste )

I'm not sold on that to be honest. All I know is human decisions are complicated and never in black and white terms. Instead they occupy the entire breadth of the spectrum. It's rather simplistic and reductive to put it the way you did. And all generalisations (even THIS ) are generally wrong.

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We Muslims fail to see Fauth as a fashionable fad, that is why Islam and Quraan endured centuries with a change compared to Christianity.


I have different take on that, a more down to earth one. But that is for another day.

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Christian Converts include former priests, and nuns, scientists, diplomats, high profile personalities, in contrast, Christianity failed to evengelize Somalis for over a century of Catholic missionary work except for few individuals seeking a worldly gain.


This flies in face of the incontrovertible fact of human history: that where ever prevailing generals went followed their faiths.

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Socod Badne, as a Jew ( by Birth), not faith, you can relate to your brothers who converted to Islam, they were highly learned people unlike poor people from Somalia, read the link:

From outward appearance those guys don't look they know shid from shinola... no thanks I'll remain lizard worshipper.Shalom!

ThePoint

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Originally posted by Nur:Your claim that Apostates are more learned in Islam than Muslims needs some qualification. Could you support your statment with reliable examples?

Of course I can, I'm SB. Man of stats and facts. Ibn Waraq (spelling!). Regardless of your view of him, agree with him or not, you gotta admit the man knows his stuff.

Lies, damn lies and statistics(from the likes of Ibn Warraq no less

Socod_badane
ThePoint,Mark Twain was right but no sure if his quote applies in this incident.


ThePoint

Mark Twain was right but no sure if his quote applies in this incident.

If the stat is from Ibn Warraq - then I have a bridge to sell you in Brooklyn

Socod_badane

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If the stat is from Ibn Warraq - then I have a bridge to sell you in Brooklyn

You can't sell me the Brookly bridge but I'll correct you. I presented no stats from Ibn Warraq, only used him as former muslims who knows more about Islam than the overwhelming majority of Muslims. With the intent to debunk the absurd suggestion that ignorance leads a muslim away from Islam.

ThePoint
Who knows about the man's background - he could be an alien from outer space or the guy who voices Homer Simpson. He doesn't even have the guts to use his real name. And the sister was more specific - she said ignorance of Islam leads a Muslim to choose Christianity - not ignorance leads a Muslim away from Islam in general. Anecdotally - I would agree. What sort of a person goes from 2 religions with much similarity and then chooses the one with the 1 in 3/3 in 1 God-head. Talk about logical gymnastics.


Socod_badane
Who cares about his background. He is a former muslim who knows about Islam than most muslims. His case is example of exceptional knowledge of Islam leading to apostasy.Game set and match!BTW, I honestly didn't suspect HOnesta was a sis WOuld've dealt with her more gently.



RendezVous
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In Somalia, two segments of Somalis were converted, at the earliest, students of the Mennonite Mission at Jawher and Mahaddai, who were promised scholarships to the USA and a better style life, and members of the farming communities in the Jubba valley.


No wonder there were some somalis from kenya like (The ajuuraans) were converted to christianity by the Anglican Church of Kenya for some C$$$....By the way, Did u hear about the christian priest who was conning people that he would cure Aids..Preach theee...Preach Halleluya..

Johnny B
The unanswered question is not weather there are Somali christians regardless of the level of their knowledge about Islam, but how accepted are they among their communities? Is Somali = Muslim? or an identity of blood, culture environment etc etc?


Northerner
Never personally met a Somali non muslim but i hear they do exist.SB, let me get this right, you are prepared to accept an apostate's view on Islam but you are not willing to accept the well grounded/researched knowledge of Islamic Scholars/Students?Your argument was something along the lines of "i dont believe everything i hear" but in this case you are prepared to accept 'everything you hear'. Is it because it is anti-Islam by any chance? (Ibn Warraq's view)

Source: http://www.somalionline.com/

6 comments:

prof said...

hello
write a letter to a great personnalities
i post your letter!
shalom
marcel

Anonymous said...

Hello, FYI Somali's aren't all Christian! Some are but the majority won't even think of converting so don't even try!

Anonymous said...

Keey

I was most shocked the killing of innocent people other then a, because of their clan an their faith.

You would be shocked if christian somali majority killed a Muslim person.

why is it not shocking the fact you killed innocent somali christians. in an age where you seek refuge in a majority christian countries.

Anonymous said...

Think of it this way if one man had a car and another man came up and said no this is my car, who is to know? But, if the man who started with the car had a crowd of witnesses saying the automobile was his and the second man had only one witness saying that it was his who would you believe, obviously the man with the many witnesses it is true with God and Allah.Plus take the example of Kamal Saleem a Lebanese Islamic extremist who killed many christians but now has converted to Christianity he was no fool he knew Islam and he came to the realization that the God of the Bible is the one true God and though he created everything he still loves us. Muslims, I love because my God loves you so passionately, track me down, blow my brains out I will never deny that the God of the Bible is the one and only way to Heaven.

faradheer said...

Wow! Each person argues to the bitter end that his way is the only true way. You could say that they are all both wrong and right. All wrong, because religion is just based on faith. All right, because if there is god, he or she is not interested what in humans do with their time and energies.

The more you look into religion and it is roots, the more you see how it was all made up. It is a waste of time believing in this god or that god. It is better to just live, laugh, and love. One life to live and I got no time to waste on gods.

The only reason religion spreads is simply through force. All you have to do is look at how people become pent out of shape when you tell them that you don't agree with there belief. They do this because they know that their religion will not survive simple reasoning.

So better to keep the masses in madness, that way, there would be no chance for questioning and thus rejection. So they keep selling themselves the delusion that the reason many people belief is because the message is true. Just look at all the islamic countries and how they have eliminated all other religions, and how they call for the death of exm-muslims.

I was born in islam, but I have rejected religion from early age. I also left Somalia early age, and before I could have been killed for my rejection. The god of islam is a very jealous god. If there is god, he or she could not be that small. Small enough to be jealous about such tiny beings as humans. And small enough to employ humans to do his work, or small enough to have hurt feelings. These are the attributes of a human, not a super-being. If there is god, he or she is not worried about anything a human does or says let alone be He jealous about it.

He or she is would not choose one group of humans over others. He or she would communicate with everyone in his or her own unique way. God would not depend on a man in the desert to carry his message to the entire earth when that man has no power to travel to all the places where people are present, nor would she or he turn itself to a baby and be born as a human child, and then die on purpose to save humans.

Can't you see that you belief a mirror image of yourselves.

kipngetich said...

The time has come and now is for the people of Somali to receive the Blessings of GOD by accepting the ONE appointed by GOD,Jesus Christ,the Son of the living GOD.IN HIM alone there is life in abundance.may GOD bless Somalia.